Samira, Los Angeles

We spoke to Samira about the role fashion and music plays in gaming, how sport ties in, representation in the realm and how we as a brand can better connect. An avid gamer since she was a child - “I had every console, I collect consoles, I’m a nerd, through and through!” - Samira now leads Brand Partnerships at Riot Games as a part of their XP1 Team. Originally beginning her career in fashion, Samira realised in her twenties that her true passion lay in gaming, and she has worked a variety of roles since that intersected the two, including for Space at Red Bull. She also works on gaming start-ups in her spare time.

What do you love about what you do, Samira? What keeps you going?

I think what keeps me going when it comes to what I do is actually the community and the player reactions. I think that validation - that I’ve done something that really excites them - is a high, because I’ve also been a huge gamer my whole life. Usually, when I’m thinking about products, partnerships, marketing or anything I’m doing, I look at it as a lens; through my lens as a gamer, and my major objective is to deliver something that is impactful and that resonates. Whenever I get that validation that people are super excited about something I’ve done… that’s just the best feeling in the world.

That identification - looking through the lens of being a gamer - is what leads to the validation, right? And how would you explain the world of gaming, from a wide-angle lens?

If I had to sum up gaming to someone who didn’t know much about the world, I’d say gaming is an absolutely incredible industry and space to operate in. You have a highly engaged community that is super creative, funny, forward thinking, digital, and, in many ways, globalised. They interact with games in exciting ways. A game isn’t just a game – it’s a form of expression. It’s a place where people can come together, and communities and bonds are formed. Gaming is so much more than just a reward-based type of interaction. It’s a form of self-expression; it invites you in and it rewards creativity. 

That’s such an eye-opening way to put it – as a form of self-expression, and a creativity enabler.

Yes. I think gaming is one of the most incredible pastimes. For me it holds a really special place also, because prior to the technological advances that we have right now, it was really hard to connect with people all over the world, but gaming allowed me to have those interactions with people from Japan, China, wherever they were. To me, gaming is like the dot connector, and it’s a beautiful part of my life, and I know it plays a really impactful role in the lives of others. It’s also culturally defining - I think right now, we’re at the place where gaming is actually defining culture. I’m super impressed by everything that’s going on. Gaming is so many things and it can be whatever experience you want it to be based on what you’re looking for. 

I love that – gaming is culturally defining. On the flip side, what industries or realms do you think have the most influence on gaming culture?

I think things that impact gaming the most are fashion and music.

Wow – so not sports?

I don’t think sports really influence gamers. I think sports influences gaming executives, because a lot of them come to gaming from sports companies, so that’s why they’re executing strategies like traditional sports companies, but the core gamer? No! The things they’re influenced by are music and fashion. And the type of music you would assume a gamer listens to is probably not what you think. A lot of gamers listen to rock because they grew up playing video games where the major boss fight had rock music in the background, and that’s something they have an association to emotionally, and then you’ve got Hip Hop, rap… a lot of that comes from the in-game experiences that they’ve had. Did you ever play GTA?

To be honest, I’m a child from the 80s… I play older games …

Yeah, but even when you think about back then, think about how much of an impact sound made on your gameplay experience! That’s why I think music is such a big part, it influences gaming so much – look at Halo! The opening composition of Halo changed people’s lives – until this day they’re recreating it no matter where they go, it has such a huge impact. And fashion, I think what helps you identify sometimes with a character in a game, or allows you to express yourself, is that ability to customise; that’s what skins and the idea of battle passes was birthed out of – we want to give people a way to make it more uniquely ‘them’. Sports? Only influences the executives.

Can you speak more about this intersection of music and fashion in gaming? You mentioned it’s something you’ve been working a lot on.

I think that even the crossover of fashion and gaming is impressive. I think we used to be very narrow-minded on what it meant to be a gamer and how they dressed and presented themselves, and I think we’re starting to realise - and companies and brands are starting to realise - that there are these characters, these whimsical characters that exist that are fantastical and all that other stuff and that are made up, but that have such an aura, an innocence, a presence, they have personality, and that personality can be transcribed and used as a source of inspiration to create products that are really going to resonate with the consumer. So, you’ve got some big fashion brands who have picked up on that. It’s not about logo slapping or putting a character on a piece of apparel that’s going to make it sell; it’s can you actually capture the essence of that character, of that champion. Nowadays it’s more like, “we’re actually going to create dope shit because you guys like dope shit.”

Do you see a relationship between gaming and sports, at all?

My hot take is that it’s the other way around; that what sports can really benefit from is investing in gaming. I think that gaming will help drive more interest in those certain sports. I do not think that sports really impacts gaming culture in any particular way, outside of maybe building some of the infrastructures and foundations of competitive gameplay or tournaments. I think gaming pulls a lot of inspiration from traditional sports in the regard, or how to build media strategies, whatever it might be, but I think sports could benefit a lot from investing in gaming.

So who, ultimately, has the most influence within the culture of gaming? The developers? The consumers? The pro gamers?

I think the person who holds the most power and influence within the industry is the consumer. I think it’s so important to be player focused - consumer focused - because if you’re developing what they want, then you’ll be successful. This is a really, highly critical market – you’ve got a bunch of people who are highly critical and who know what they want and if you’re not delivering that they want and you’re not listening to what they want, then goodbye! You’re going to be eaten alive. These are the trolls of the internet, and also the champions of the internet; they’re both, they’re dual sided, they’re protectors and they’re also little terrors! It’s definitely the consumers.

This  old-school view of the gaming as all loners in their basements, this is outdated, do you think?

It’s completely false. With the prevalence of influencers and streamers and platforms such as Twitch, you’re starting to see a shift in that sentiment because you’re starting to see that hey, oh my God, there are all these amazing people who are fit, who are active, who are beautiful, who are women, who are non-binary - whatever they are - are gamers. And, actually, everything you do when you’re gaming requires social interaction. Gaming is a team-based activity. I think people are starting to understand that there’s a lot of skills that can be transferred from being a gamer into the real world. The perception of “you’re a nerd because you game” is definitely changing, thanks to a lot of people who are at the forefront and really changing that perception and being loud about it.

What’s exciting to you in regard to the culture of gaming right now?

I think what’s exciting to me is that we’re seeing a transition and a shift in that gaming is actually influencing culture; influencing entertainment, media, music, all these different areas. There are gamers that are becoming artists, that are directing and designing apparel collections. Gaming IP is being translated for mass audiences for entertainment and film, so gaming is no longer something that’s sacred and only for the gamers - it’s starting to become something that everyone and new audiences are super excited by because of the beautiful storytelling that happens and the attention to detail. I’m really excited to see how that continues to transition and I think there’s so much more that can be done from that perspective. I think we’re only scratching the surface of just how much gaming can really come into the real world. 

Who are the companies and people that are cutting edge in the world of gaming?

I think the companies that are cutting edge - regardless of whether I agree with all their decisions or not - are the Blizzards of the world, the Riot Games of the world. Riot Games, I swear it’s not because I’m biased because I work for them, but even being internal and hearing them talk about what this means to the players, being a player focused company, that’s the reason why I align myself with them and chose to really take the job, because they care about the community. Other than that, I think there are a lot of streamers who have been leading the charge from the gaming industry, and I would say that’s Ninja, Pokimane, Valkyrae, CouRageJD, Nadeshot, these kinds of people. 

What would you say makes these people ‘positively disruptive’ in the industry?

The fact that they’re able to come in to places where gaming traditionally hasn’t been able to intercept or cut through. Even the collaboration between Morikami and Faze Clan on a sweater; that’s disruptive. Shout out to Riot Games for doing Louis Vuitton and League of Legends - that was probably one of the biggest collaborations that’s ever happened as far as fashion and gaming went. 

While all of these exciting collabs are happening, is there anything that’s been lost in the culture of gaming?

I think one of the things that gets lost is that as gaming is growing so quickly, you have all these people who suddenly see a new space, a new opportunity and they try and create products, moments, campaigns, and everything in between that doesn’t resonate with the gamer because nobody on the team that’s building that product is actually a gamer. It’s incredibly important to make sure that if you’re trying to position yourself as a gaming company or if you’re trying to expand into gaming, that you have people who regularly game, or who identify as gamers.

We’re definitely going to come back to that point a little bit later, but first, are there any other frustrations or concerns that you have about the industry?

Yes, a frustration that I have is that gaming culture is still quite misogynistic and there is still a lot of toxicity. That’s the first thing that comes to mind. I hope that one day, gamers realise that everyone who’s playing alongside them are humans, too, and I hope that that internet culture - the way we speak to each other when we’re in games - kinda changes and that there’s more of an acceptance of others. I don’t want it to feel like we’re gatekeeping. Other than that, my frustration with gaming is that it’s expensive. For a lot of games, for example, it’s not just consoles; it’s VR, it's a computer, you need a keyboard, a mouse, all the peripherals to essentially be able to play a game, and a lot of people just don’t have access to that. I think that gaming could have a tremendously positive impact on a lot of people’s lives, but there’s a barrier there. A mission for me is to be able to give everyone access to gaming and be able to experience that, because I think it could positively impact their lives in multiple ways.

It sounds like most of your frustrations around gaming as an industry are tied to inclusivity – to acceptance and accessibility, essentially.

Yes.To me, inclusivity means acceptance. That no matter who you are, what you wear, the way you dress, what you identify as, you are welcome. To use an internet term, it’s very much like, “you can sit with us”. If I was going to tie that to gaming, I would say that inclusivity means just general kindness. Inclusive just means “hey, come experience what I’m experiencing, there is no barrier to entry, there is no gatekeeping.” Inclusivity just means an openness. 

Can you speak more about inclusivity within the world of gaming, and where it might be ahead, or behind? It’s something we’re very interested in hearing from you about.

It’s funny really, that in gaming - the one sport that has no less of an actual ‘barrier,’ because it isn’t physical in many regards; it has to do with precision and speed of input and all of these things - that there are people who are gatekeeping who think that men are far superior when it comes to gaming and that women are not as good. No! In general, I think the gaming industry has a lot more work to do to be really diverse and inclusive. You don’t open a game and see a full spread of different skin tones and colours or ways to identify yourself, either. I can name a ton of games where there’s only three skin tones available – why? There should be the full gamut. We’re in freaking 2021. 

So, would you say that there’s still a barrier for women in gaming?

Most women don’t ever get the opportunity to play with men - they always try and separate the two genders and say that only women can play with women, or only men with men. This fundamentally doesn’t make sense. If more teams were mixed or co-ed, I think it would actually highlight how many women can be good if they had the support and players in competition at that skill level. I think the way a lot of things are structured are to keep things the way they are, and if I had the option to, I would change and test different formats; let the women play against the men, let there be co-ed games. Why is it that most of these teams are only dudes? Let the top girl play with you, let her train with you. I think those opportunities don’t really exist for women to become competitive players or competitive within the scene.

Why do you think this is? Is the culture of gaming inherently non-inclusive?

This is one of the unfortunate things about the culture of gaming; that it’s always been perceived as male dominated. I think that has to go back all the way to the marketing that first happened when games became a thing and they hit the scene. You used to have to go to the boys’ aisle to go check out video games. The old school Sega commercials: it’s a guy, he’s telling you it’s cool to be a gamer, it was never a girl. I gamed! But they never really marketed to women. I think a lot of that has been embedded in the culture from the beginning. Male gamers believe that this is their space and that they are superior. There’s been some gatekeeping that perpetuates this notion that a girl can’t be good at games.

I think also it’s because a lot of it is just so rooted in a fantastical, alternate reality that sometimes we try and separate the two, so we’re not necessarily as focused on real-world issues; that’s just not what we come to play games for. I think there’s a separation there, and so there’s no one really holding a lot of these companies accountable in terms of being more diverse and inclusive. I definitely do think some of them do care about that tremendously, but other than that, I think that what they really care about is an amazing game play experience and did you make sure that you gave me the update I wanted for the new patch or the new skin, that’s what they care about. 

What does the industry in general need to do to become more inclusive, do you think?

The one thing that is lacking is testing; they should be testing with wide groups to see whether or not they’re being inclusive and diverse enough. I can’t stress that enough. I think game developers and companies should just test, test and test, and get feedback.  I think we’re very far from the gaming industry being super diverse and inclusive, but I hope that one of the things game developers start to think about is diversity, when they’re approaching the creative. The creative itself also should be more inclusive.

Are there any games or companies you can see in the industry that are actively doing this?

Activision portfolio, Riot Games portfolio, EA Games, Respawn - those guys are all being really inclusive and diverse. As far as their game design and development, and what they produce – Ubisoft. I would say a lot of the game developers are super inclusive and diverse when it comes to the creative and their game design. Do I think they are inclusive and diverse in their company culture? Probably not, and I think that’s something that a lot of these gaming companies are working towards; trying to have more women in positions of leadership.

On the outside, companies that are perceived maybe by gamers or just in general as being super diverse and inclusive are the Nikes of the world, I’d even say I’ve been really impressed with some of the stuff that adidas has done when it comes to gaming. Working with Ninja, they brought a gamer to the forefront and collaborated with him to create some really dope collections. 

Do you think Ninja was creative first and was successful first from a gaming perspective, or was adidas creating something for Ninja from a physical perspective first and foremost?

I agree with you here. I think gaming hasn’t reached a point right yet as an e-sport or a piece of culture that is informing things like that, YET. We’re getting there.

Do you think we might be missing a Tony Alva or an Allen Iverson when it comes to gaming?

Yeah, we’re missing a LeBron James, a Kobe of gaming. We don’t have that yet. The second that we do have it - and it’s not just one white guy - then we’ll probably be in a way better place, but there needs to be representation as far as that goes as well. If you look at Korean culture of gaming, you’ll see a bunch of really stylish motherfuckers, but the only thing is that a lot of them don’t speak English, so they haven’t been able to transcend into the American market yet. 

Where would you tell adidas that they need to start, if they want to better tap into this culture of gaming?

Speaking of Korea, that’s where I’d tell them to go first. Cafes and gaming are embedded in the culture. My whole entire trend and mood board that I created when I was working in fashion on the gaming side was inspired by Korean high fashion - from the shows and what I saw on the streets - and that was the stuff that sold out here, in the West. They inform us - that is a true fact. If I had to pick a market I was going to get into, I’d go to Korea. Look at BTS, what they’re doing, look at K-Pop as an example. They all play video games. So, go to Korea, go hang out at the PC bang, play the games, and understand the culture. Definitely don’t bullshit it; don’t try and just come in without any understanding of exactly who you’re talking to.

So, if adidas wants to get into the gaming world, they need to hire or at least work with people from the gaming world in order to make sense?

Absolutely. How is somebody who doesn’t work in gaming going to have the insight to somebody who does? Back when I was working at Red Bull, all I used to do was sit down and observe myself, the pro players, and through observation, I would then build products. Gaming is built on authenticity. If you don’t know what you’re talking about and you don’t know why you’re building something, we are not going to react to it well, we’re going to call bullshit, so that’s probably one of the major things – people come into this space thinking ok, if I make something super cool, everyone’s going to buy it, they’ll be super excited by it, but that’s not how it works. It’s got to be for gamers, by gamers, that’s super important.

What do you think adidas could learn by observing and talking to gamers?

I think there’d be a ton of insights. Just for me, watching competitive gamers I learned so much about them. Throwing it out there, they sweat, right? They’re stationary, basically sitting down for hours on end, why isn’t anyone making a t-shirt that circulates or helps the flow of energy through the body? Let’s just say I don’t even game – there’s a t-shirt out there that increases my circulation or distributes the flow of energy throughout my body, I’m gonna freaking buy it because I sit at a desk all day and I work, so even though you’ve made it for gamers, I’m probably going to pick up that shirt but that’s freaking rad. I think when you find those things that make gamers uniquely gamers and you can transcend that into the masses, it’s really cool. How many people do you think their hands sweat? A lot? A decent amount? Think outside the box. If everyone is making the same old shit for gamers, what else can you do and how else can you enhance their experience, how can you make them better, more comfortable? It’s those kinds of things that I think most brands don’t think about. All you get is a branded hoody that’s got a logo slapped on it and they say it’s for gamers.

Apart from these meaningless hoodies with logos on them, have you seen any brands fuck up in other ways, here?

Yeah. I feel like the approach and the tactics of a lot of fashion brands, for example, are generally inauthentic at best. I think a lot of them are just trying to leverage the communities to create products and sell new things and attract new audiences, and I don’t actually see any level of originality or innovation in the products that they’re creating.  I think that there’s so much more that you can do that can be super dope that actually puts gamers on the map through the products that are being created. At the moment, they think because they’re Prada and they’ve made a game that you can access to go see their fashion show, that we’re gonna be excited. No gamer gives a shit about that! Just because you’re making a game, doesn’t mean you’re going to attract gamers. More authentic integrations that need to happen. Design a high fashion collection that is inspired by all of these champions or characters from my favourite game. Go bring my VIP that I really care about into the real world in a cool way.

Circling back to adidas and Ninja – what did you think of that collab? You can be honest!

I think it was ok. I think the products they created felt very gamer-y, but I think that’s the one thing that we’re trying to break away from. You can’t put us in a box, and I think that some of the stuff that should be designed for gamers should be a little bit different, should be inspired by high fashion, by the culture of gaming and not a ‘one for one.’ But, at the same time, adidas took the leap of faith to actually do that, and I think that’s what they did right; to work with the gamer and curate a collection. The things they could have done differently – being innovative. Gaming is inspired by digital technology, what kind of product features could you guys have added to that to elevate the experience? Could it have been that I scan my shoe and then I see my avatar come to life next to it? It’s that extra layer of experience when you’re talking to a community…

This has been a very insightful interview – we’re super grateful for everything you’ve been telling us. Before we wrap up, what would you like to see change in the culture of gaming?

I think the one thing I would love to see change is mostly that layer of toxicity. What are the products or features that big brands can release to shift the way gamers think? Can Twitch create a positivity bot, whatever? I’d really like to see more acceptance. I think gaming could benefit a ton from more acceptance across all areas and I think acceptance can mean so many different things. We have to be more open-minded as players to new experiences and I think the inverse is true – that the world needs to be more accepting of us, so it’s two-fold.

And would you be interested in working with adidas in the future?

Fashion and gaming, that intersection – fashion/gaming/culture – has always interested me, and I’ve wanted to disrupt the space for a long time, so absolutely yes. I can’t even begin to tell you the amount of passion I have for this space in particular. I’ve done it in small capacities wherever I could, whether it was at Red Bull, at NYXL, and even right now at Riot; even though I’m not technically on consumer products, I’m sticking my nose in and trying to disrupt a little bit, trying to change the way they think about that stuff, because I think that their approach is not correct either, and they’re going after consultants in the space who don’t necessarily know the gaming world…