Jonathan, Berlin

We talked to Berlin based artist and activist Jonathan about inclusivity, sustainability, and how brands can better behave in the realms of activism and activist communities. Jonathan is an artist and activist who creates interactive pieces that challenge ideas around technology, gender and sexuality, as well as the human experience. Trained as an engineer, Jonathan is passionate about pushing gender binaries and social expectations, and looks to encourage others to do the same through his artwork and exhibitions.

So, let’s start with this: what do you love about what you do, Jonathan?

I love crossing my own borders and getting other people to cross theirs. That’s what keeps me going. I just love to empower people and inspire them to rethink their ideas and personal identity. Another thing I really like is mixing my other triads - that being art and engineering – to create new and original pieces.

And do you see yourself as an ‘activist’, or something else?

I think an artist is always an activist, so me being an artist, I would say I’m an activist, as well. My activism is not very PC, though, so I would still classify myself as an outsider in that sense. I’m not an activist in the same way that someone from a green political party is an activist, because they are very ‘correct’ and uniform. I would class my activism as radical, niche, and maybe sometimes a bit offensive. I think activism needs that aspect of being a little bit offensive, though, because that is what actually gets people thinking. 

That’s an interesting point and from research we’ve done before, sometimes it’s even important for art to offend - it’s all about causing that emotional reaction, whatever the reaction might be. How would you explain the world of activism to someone who’s not immersed in it? Many people are ‘reading’ it from the outside, right?

Exactly. Activism today is very superficial and, in my eyes, has been capitalised upon by companies for the last few decades. Activism today is very much filled with labeling and putting people in brackets, rather than looking at a group as a whole. I have a feeling that activism has become a trend; a trend that will not last for a long time, which is exactly the opposite of what activism should be. Activism does not go so deep, anymore. Nowadays, it seems to mainly just be scratching the surface.

We’ve heard this before, the dangers of activism - and ‘acting’ - becoming ‘on trend’. It’s the same with sustainability, it’s a very dangerous space to find ourselves in. What do you wish activism was, instead? What are your frustrations specifically?

I would wish for activism to be less superficial and more profound - that people within that community wouldn’t fall back on using labels. Labeling is my biggest frustration. I think everyone should just live their lives without having to have a plaque around their neck saying what they do and who they are. Also, I hate the correctness that is expected from people that are involved in activism. Somehow, everyone else can speak about what they want and how they want, but activists specifically always need to be PC. Finally – although this might be impossible – I would want activism to detach itself from capitalism. Topics like gender diversity, racism, and sexuality need to be addressed all of the time, not just during something like pride month. I can see somewhat of a momentum at the moment but we need some results to come along with that.

The transience of it all is super frustrating. And we’ve heard and studied a lot about cancel culture, and that PC argument. Ruby loves a rant on it! I guess, on the flip side, what exists within activism at the moment that you do find exciting, if anything?

I think movements like #MeToo and Black Lives Matter are amazing and have changed our community drastically in the short time span that they have been around, but I don't see a lot of small and unknown movements that excite me at this point. Small movements sooner or later seem to attach themselves to the big movements and slowly vanish over time. I have to add that I do feel that the smaller movements are a lot more effective, because they mostly target small communities rather than a global audience, making it easier for them to connect with the people. 

We’ve heard a lot to echo this sentiment - that it’s important to stay, or at least start, small. And the existence of subcultures is tough at the moment; the Internet never allows anything to stay small, even though it can create more impact in being small… Is there anything you think a global brand hoping to do better within the realm of activism needs to be aware about, perhaps in Berlin, specifically?

Berlin is a large city with relatively low living costs, meaning that a lot of people have the means to express themselves, their ideas and creative thoughts freely. Living in Berlin is truly being free. You can express yourself however you want, dress how you want, talk how you want. Berlin is full of creative and disruptive energy. To me, Berlin is the headquarters of the arts at this point. Berlin also has an extensive background and history when it comes to activism and speaking for one's rights. Berlin has seen everything, and it reflects that onto its citizens.

Those are super interesting points, and Berlin definitely embodies a whole lot of artistic energy, we talk about the importance of disruption with adidas often, and I can feel that in Berlin, that type of energy …

Yeah, I mean, in Berlin, the artistic world is definitely closely linked to activism. 

Who are the people leading the way in the activism realm, in your mind? Who are the ‘heroes’ of the scene?

Paulo Depriciado is probably one of the most influential activists here at the moment, especially when it comes to discussions around gender. Adel Annel is another name that I would mention, as she played a vital part in the #MeToo movement in France. Lil Nas X is amazing as well because he uses his platform to speak about important topics, and also about his sexuality and feelings.

Are there any character traits these people have in common that we can learn from? 

All three of those people use their platforms in a way that is very inspiring and motivating. Lil Nas X is an especially amazing example because he has such a big reach and following and still speaks openly about his sexuality. All of these people have amazing courage and bravery which I deeply respect. They are courageous, creative, and socially intelligent. They have the bravery to step up and speak about what they are concerned about and the social skills to relate to people to really bring their ideas across. I look at them and I get super inspired by them; inspired to speak up even more and stand my ground against any form of hate or intolerance.

I love it! You’ve just pretty much named all the traits of being an Original… Being brave, being oneself, having confidence, doing things differently. It’s fantastic that all of these icons are examples of that… Are there people in Berlin that you see as having a similar impact too?

Talking specifically about Berlin, I would mention Johny Leiser, a queer director who directed the first documentary about the queer scene in Berlin. Mino Rau is another director who speaks out about a lot of topics like racism and sexuality. I really like what he has been doing for the last few years. 

You mentioned that Berlin is a leader in the arts scene. Where do you think Berlin stands in terms of inclusivity and diversity right now? 

Berlin is definitely leading the way when it comes to inclusivity, especially when we are looking at Germany and the German culture as a whole. London is another city where I think inclusivity is at a very high and diverse level. I'd say, in London the government is empowering the people and initiating inclusivity and in Berlin it's the people and communities. I think people are very open minded in Berlin when it comes to the topic of inclusivity, because the city is a melting pot of so many different cultures. The community itself is very diverse and so, by extension, inclusive as well.

What does the word ‘inclusivity’ mean to you?

Inclusivity is to be able to be diverse, to make a safe space for everyone from a diverse set of backgrounds. I think a lot of people seem to think that inclusivity and an inclusive space is mostly for queer or black people. But, inclusivity means everyone, and not just a certain group of people from a specific background. 

That’s important right? That we’re not just talking about the queer community, females and people of colour. Inclusivity has to mean everyone. It’s a democracy almost, a way of inviting everyone in. What do you think is most needed in your community in Berlin in terms of further championing inclusivity and diversity? 

The first aspect is that people need to be able to meet physically. You need a physical space to make proper connections between people. You also need a structure behind that space; an acceptance around the space that will attract more people. 

Ah, the importance of space. Another thing we talk about. What other obstructions are there currently, other than space, in terms of widening the discussion? 

The problem is that people who lead discussions need to be in a place of power - a place where they can actually change something. Most people that are the figureheads of activist groups and discussion aren't in these types of positions, and therefore can’t implement direct changes into politics or society. The biggest social issue that we have at the moment is that the world is dominated by white, heterosexual, cis men. Speaking for my community, we definitely need some change in that pattern, and the sooner the better. If I had to choose a person who is in a place of power and leading a discussion around inclusivity, I'd probably name Angela Merkel as she has recently been addressing women empowerment and the overall role of women in modern day society.

You mentioned that activism should be disconnected from capitalism … Are there any ways you think that consumer brands can, actually, be more supportive of inclusivity, and other social issues?

Hmmm.Brands need to collaborate with a more diverse set of artists and contributors, especially with those immersed in the gender and inclusivity discussion. I’d love to see adidas, for example, supporting and sponsoring people, artists, platforms and events that revolve around diversity and inclusion. Big brands just need to get deep into their communities and understand what the people want to see from them. They should also start collaborating with a lot more local artists and creators that are immersed in the matters the brands want to touch on. If they use their resources to actually support these kinds of matters and people, then change within the company will come very naturally and organically. 

Have you seen anything from brands like adidas or Nike, in this area?

Most of Nike's ads and video campaigns are very diverse, especially in the US. In Europe, I actually think Nike are behind adidas, however, when it comes to the matters we have been talking about. In Berlin in general, Nike is a bit more gangster and rough, whilst adidas is a bit more hipster and lowkey. Most of my friends are into adidas, especially in the groups and communities that I'm immersed in. But I can only speak for the bubble of Berlin, where adidas are already doing a pretty excellent job when it comes to inclusivity.

Alongside inclusivity, sustainability is another issue at the forefront of many minds – for obvious reasons! How important is sustainability to you? 

Sustainability for me is very important to me, personally. I think we, as a society, need to think seriously about how we can be more sustainable and how we can use, reuse and properly dispose of our resources. There are so many sustainable processes and ideas on the market already – more brands need to adopt them as soon as possible. There are already so many things that we can do, and yet so many brands still stick to their unsustainable habits.

So, do you think it is a brand’s inherent responsibility to take sustainable practices into account?

Yes. Brands have a massive responsibility when it comes to sustainability, because their productions play a vital role in the overall destruction of our environment. If we didn’t have brands, we wouldn't be talking about sustainability. Their marketing is what fuels people to buy more products and subsequently to produce more waste and emissions. This is a circle that needs to be broken, and soon. 

What are some ways you’d like to see brands tackle this issue?

These kinds of brands should definitely start using organic and deadstock fabrics, produce locally and lower their emissions and waste. I think, if they tackle these pillars, then other issues such as child labour will begin to fall in to place as well. 

And how about adidas in particular?

For adidas in particular - I don't understand why they don't produce more products in Germany. adidas definitely needs to look into how and where they produce their clothes. If it's impossible for them to produce their clothes in Europe, which I'm sure it isn't, they should try and support and fund other matters around sustainability, like using organic materials or making sure they’re properly taking care of their workers and manufacturers. Adidas, LV; Lacoste, all of them have so much money and resources yet still dont change anything within their company when it comes to sustainability or change.

And what, exactly, do you think is most important for a brand to remember when being active in this space? 

That they actually back up their words, and don't just use the matter of sustainability to tick boxes or try to market their products. They must actually care for the environment; reuse as much resources as they can, produce locally. and keep their carbon footprint as low as possible. 

Do you think that this is a common problem of brands being within the activist space; that they don’t ‘back up their words’?

I think a lot of brands are just jumping on the bandwagon of activism because it is a cool thing to do. If they are sparking change somehow, it’s cool, but if they use activism for their own commercial and financial benefit, I’m very much against that. Brands seem to just want to do what's cool at the moment…

I think brands just need to understand that they need to collaborate with people that are actually immersed in activism, instead of working on the matter themselves and with the team they have. Brands need to collaborate with the people immersed in the matter to properly understand what they need to do.

Are there any areas of activism you feel adidas is well-aligned with?

For me adidas has always been very closely connected to football so maybe they should look into sparking change in that area; touching upon racism and homophobia there. 

We’ve heard that elsewhere too, including from a piece of research we just did for Arsenal, making change in football seems like a no-brainer… As a creative activist, how do you think a big brand could help YOU, personally?

Like I mentioned before with inclusivity, I think one of the biggest hurdles for artists or creatives nowadays is not having the space – the literal, physical space - you need to create. You need time, money, and resources to create, and it's hard to obtain all three of these pillars, especially for young creators. That's definitely a place where brands can step in to support and fund people and projects.

We agree, we most definitely agree… Any parting words for adidas?

I would like to reiterate that adidas should look into their local communities to work with and support them. I also hope that we will have more spaces for people from the community to actually get together to exchange ideas and thoughts. Also, speaking more about local initiatives, I would like to see adidas producing more locally – at least in Germany, and Europe - and not relying on foreign productions. This is especially true after lockdown – people’s lifestyles have changed so much, that they’re buying locally, flying less, and supporting others. I hope this sentiment prevails post-pandemic. Work with the right people, fund the right projects, and actually implement change into their company, basically. And make a decision to stick to it.