Jacob, London

Jacob Sawyer grew up in skate shops in and around London and his reverence and passion for those spaces hasn’t waned over the years. He’s worked for Slam City Skates for over 20 years, currently as the editor of the Slam blog, which has led on to him arranging events and premieres and looking after their social media. A role that’s grown during lockdown to include a series of ‘Isolation Station’ interviews for Slam, which sees him interviewing key figures in the skateboard world about things that inspired them, because he’d “always been inspired by people who were skateboarders and in a big way that was their identity, but they always had these other creative outlets.” We sat down to pick his brain about how skate culture has changed over the years, inclusivity in skate culture and who’s carrying on Slam City Skate’s legacy of being positively disruptive. “If you’ve skateboarded for more than 10 years, you're not normal. And you'll never be normal and you'll always be forever changed. Our brains are just different”.

You’ve been a skateboarder now for 35 years and been involved in the retail side of it for nearly half as long. What keeps you excited about skate culture after all these years?

There's so many avenues now in skateboarding. Even with the Olympics, that kind of throws it all into a whole other sphere of how it's perceived. It’s exciting that skateboarding is now in everybody’s consciousness, to some extent. I get people coming up to me now talking about skateboarding in the Olympics who would otherwise have no interest in it. Skateboarding now exists on this huge platform in this stratosphere of talent that was never there before; it’s going through the roof constantly. Nowadays, you've got this wide open playing field that is more inclusive than it ever has been or ever has felt. My peers, like Andy Horsley, are embracing new ways of being active like making different Instagram accounts, such as the Dadlands carpark account. In skateboarding, there’s always been people of varying age ranges, and from all over the city, hanging out; you’ll get a four year old talking to a seven year old about how he should put his foot to do a kickflip. I’ve always loved that about skateboarding. There are some amazing female skateboarders about at the moment too; there are doors open now and it’s incredible. I find seeing that more inspiring than watching a guy who’s practicing really hard to get really good. I think skateboarding is in good hands. I think that the people who are in positions of influence are, for the most part, people who have grown up through it. And even if it's people working for big brands, such as adidas, I’m confident that these people are taking it in the right direction, Paul Shier for example, and his influence within adidas’ skate scene. For the most part, all the people who are company owners now, are guys who skate, or used to skate, at a high level. It's in the hands of people who care about it, first and foremost, which is different to other points in time. The gatekeepers or caretakers of it, actually care, which is really important. 

Slam City Skates was always positively disruptive, who else do you think is carrying on that tradition?

Palace definitely are. They’re incendiary in their approach. Thrasher too; Jake Phelps’ passion and take on skate culture is something that you can't replicate. The Angel Dust zine was amazing; the way he talked about things. With the loss of Phelps, I think that has possibly been diluted, but Michael Burnett is keeping the ethos there. Nora Vasconcellos unapologetically is who she is and has fun with it. Anybody who unapologetically puts their actual character to something rather than leaving it up to somebody else, is doing something positively disruptive. Because it's inspiring other people to be who they are, or discover who they are, or have some kind of impetus to be individual.

Anyone else being positively disruptive?

I think Jason Dill and his company Fucking Awesome and Hockey are. The team he works with are great, and the imagery of those brands is great. He's like a conduit to what Supreme and Palace are doing. I think those brands are really good at throwing something out there and being like breadcrumbs. With Supreme, their influence is quite obvious; they’re the ones that introduce kids to Capone-N-Noreaga and Public Enemy for the first time. They’re pushing the culture of skateboarding forward by referencing things that make people look at other things. “Blokes” The Movie, with Jacob Harris Snelling, was positively disruptive. It was outrageous. They're very in your face characters who are unlike anybody else. That's what skateboard companies are built off: characters. Unless everybody's put together in the same kind of vein, but that's good too. Like Girl and Chocolate - I love those brands, and that period of time - but they weren’t disruptive, they were setting the standard. I think it takes great bravery to try and be funny, whether that resonates with people or not. You're putting yourself out there way more than if you just put a three minute video of you skating. It's all those other aspects that make somebody interesting. 

This is a great list… 

[laughs] Thank you! Ah, also right now, there's so many incredible skateboarders - it’s like a whitewash - so it takes a lot for something to stand out from that. And often for me, I'll be more interested in somebody I find interesting, versus some technically bonkers trick. There’s beauty in both dangerous skating, and technical skating. What Ronnie Craig does is inspiring for the older generation of skaters. It’s radical that some person in their forties is still pushing the boundaries of what's possible for them, and what's possible for that age group. That’s disruptive. With Slam City Skates we did an article about senior skateboarding. We interviewed this guy who started skating aged 47 out in Leeds, who talks to Esther, who started skating as a nearly 50 year old mum. That's disruptive, because that's challenging everybody's concepts of age, and motherhood. They’re fucking with everyone's concept of what is feasible or possible. Tony Hawk's being disruptive every day. It's a radical act to go and body through that, and to fail constantly before you land a trick.

What worries do you have about skate culture, especially as it gets more popular?

A worry I’ve had in the past about skate culture, would be that all the history would get lost, but there's enough people now, with enough access to enough platforms, to the point where so much stuff just can't be lost. Nowadays, kids inherently have some kind of respect, whether they know it or not, for what came before - more than during the nineties for sure. What is going to be lost - and I'm not that worried about it being lost - is the fact that it's not going to be challenging to be a skateboarder anymore. I was beaten up as a kid, for having a skateboard, but that's not really gonna happen anymore. It's cool to skate; it’s everywhere. That struggle has been lost. Skateboarding is just cool by proxy. It's easy to be a skateboarder now; there’s a skatepark everywhere. We used to travel all the way to North Hampton to go skateboarding for a few hours. That has been lost, which is a shame. 15 or 20 years ago, if there was an event in England, most people travelled to it. It used to be that we were in a very small, connected society. And now we're in a vast, ultra-connected society, with less of those pivotal moments in the year. But then that's where brands and shops’ responsibilities lie; to create those moments for another generation. That's a pivotal part of supporting skateboarding.

Where do brands fit into the DIY ethos of skate culture?

Brands will always have the most power over skate culture; ultimately they're the vehicle for the skateboarders. They will always be a huge part of every skater’s individual journey. The brands I love won't ever not be part of my psyche. A kid is always going to remember their first board, they're always going to remember why they started riding that board. Whoever you talk to, they’ll associate a time in their life with what board they were skating or what brand they were wearing. There were so many kids around Britain when they went on those Blueprint tours, who were dressed like Danny Brady, who's possibly dressed that way because of Stefan Janoski. Brands are always going to be that driving force of skate culture. They are a way of letting people forge their own style by gravitating towards somebody else's. Kids have brand allegiance, and that comes from either the people they see around and look up to, and the people they're surrounded by, their budget, or anything else.

You’ve talked about the huge growth in skateboarding, but how inclusive do you think skate culture is these days?

Obviously it’s hugely important, and something that I get the biggest kick out of seeing. Seeing this huge influx of girls gravitating towards skateboarding is amazing, Cher Strauberry being an example. She's a great spokesperson for a whole movement that's inspired other movements, and Vans have been pretty on point with supporting that and choosing to collaborate with her. I think people like Leo baker, Dom Henry and Brian Anderson are incredibly brave, openly talking about issues of inclusivity and coming out in the skate scene. It’s massive. In the same vein, people talking about mental health more openly nowadays, is massive. 

Do you think this will continue?

I think the diversity of skate culture is only going to grow. Brands and magazines need to use their platform to support that. The more those conversations flow, and the more interviews there are with marginalised people, the better the playing field for kids growing up who aren’t so sure of themselves. Skateboarders are rule breakers. But at some point in time, there were definitely a pretty rigid set of rules within that framework. And then it's how you navigate that; and that's why you gravitate towards a brand or company that reflects how you feel or how you fit into the world around you.

So brands can have a definite role in supporting that?

I think there's definitely a very acute need for brands to be seen to be supporting things, which would definitely, to some extent, come from above. As long as it's an obvious and organic support of the human beings involved, that's fine. skateboarders are pretty switched on to whether something's legit or not. And I think any shoe brand doing that will make sure they do it right. It’s cool that adidas is supporting people to do projects, and it's obvious that the collaborators have had creative control over it. You can tell that adidas supports them enough to give them the reins to formulate how the project plays out.

How can adidas work with social issues like inclusivity in skate culture?

By supporting unique characters who are viable spokespeople for their generation and the next generation, or whatever group it is that they identify themselves with. It will only ever really resonate from an individual's voice, who has proper passion about something. To hear Cher Strauberry talk for example, is way more impactful than somebody else on the sidelines talking about why something’s important; it’s true and it’s real. I can definitely see these original, creative people in skateboarding expanding to make a difference regarding bigger social issues such as climate change.

And what about supporting originality? 

There are so many true originals in skate culture at the moment. Everybody is original in their own way, but because you've got so many different demographics within that we've got the true originals who are elder statesman, still maintaining a presence and a following and still having an impact, such as Mark Gonzales and Lance Mountain, and the generation below, there are people like Gino Iannucci and Jason Dill. Truly original  is people who are more than just a skateboarder; they're a character, they're not defined by what's going on. They're doing their own thing within skate culture, but outside of it.

How hard is it to be original these days, do you think? 

The thing is, there's nothing new and untouched. Brands have tried everything - sustainability, incentives to bring skateboarding lessons to underprivileged areas - all of those things are great. It's just about maintaining them and using them as a vehicle for change as opposed to being just a promotional campaign. Skateboarding was always a rich white boys sport basically. You had to be affluent to maintain skateboarding until you sort of became part of it, then you worked your way around getting second hand boards or being sponsored; you had to have some cash to pursue it. So brands need to help make it more accessible to more people and allow the people furthering it to use the brand as a platform to push positive endeavours they feel aligned with.

How does adidas fit into skate culture?

adidas is completely connected to skate culture, especially recently. I think it’s cemented its inclusion in the grand scheme of things, in the support of a lot of the right people. I think the Tyshawn shoe was very much a shoe that really resonated with me compared to a lot of others; design wise, skateboarder wise and the fact that it was a departure from just reappropriating existing designs. This shoe definitely has a loyal customer base. I just want to see people making new rad shit, I always get annoyed when it's like the same thing but they change it slightly. I get quite frustrated with that. I always say it's like having the keys to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory and making some Revels. Just do something sick! To me a shoe is great when you can see all these different elements it took to design this thing. 

And how could they be more connected, do you think? 

From my point of view, adidas could be more connected to skate culture by developing brand new skate shoes, like the Tyshawn. Nike has very strong ties to London because of the people that they sponsored and the events they have backed, and just for being involved in skateboarding for longer, but adidas have done some equally good stuff and they have a great team of interesting and lesser known skaters in London. I know a lot of people who buy adidas skate shoes, but don't buy them from the shops, because there's lots of ways to get them cheaper direct. They're often way more expensive in the skate shops. Direct to consumer is a big thing. The Blondey McCoy phenomenon is something interesting in its own right, because he's a character way outside the skate world. I think adidas’ role within the skate world has got better with a bunch of things. I liked that Mark Gonzalez thing; I didn’t necessarily like the shoes but I liked that FA collab. I think adidas is doing an okay job. I'd like to see more UK presence. I was hyped when that Darius clip came out. But those Mark Gonzales clips - you can't really fuck with that. adidas recognise that he’s a true legend. It's not like he was bought and paid for, he has sort of a long affiliation with adidas. adidas have chosen great people to represent them in my opinion. Just keep looking after Mark Gonzales and Nora Vasconcellos.

It seems like they’re getting a lot right at the moment, but what else would you like to see adidas do alongside skate culture?

Using budget to create memories for kids coming up, and to put kids in contact with the people they have on the team is such an amazing thing to be able to do, and to do it right. adidas have to correctly immerse themselves in the community and give something back to it. They need to recreate these events as many times as they can, and in as many different interesting ways. The unbelievable thing about skateboarding is that a kid can go out on the streets and skate next to skaters they admire, and the skater will most likely be cool with them; kids can’t do that with football or basketball. Working on events at Slam City Skates, again and again we've managed to do events that those kids will never forget. That's vital, because that is grassroots at its core. And even better if you do an event and you can give something back to the community that that brand was built on. That’s how you create an affinity and an association to a brand on a very visceral and personal level. 

Is social media something that’s changed skate culture?

I think it’s cool that people bother to film themselves and post on their social media, because I come from a generation where it's very uncool to do so. During the pandemic, everybody had to skate on their own. And people of my age, we're progressing, and we're putting stuff out there, and it actually becomes a motivating force. If you try to film something, it makes you do what you were trying to do better; you do the best one possible. There's just no shame in the game of people, especially from the older generation, showing their progression. That is community building, and that is more of what social media should be doing. It’s accessing each other's progress in this weird journey of skateboarding. Skateboarding is everywhere and is seeped into everything. It’s never going to die again, if  anything, it's going to get bigger. And that's not a bad thing, because if it gets bigger, there’ll always be a rebellion, there's always going to be a rebellion. There's always going to be an innovation and an adversity to the mainstream. Skateboarding is always gonna be a rebellious act, and unfortunately, I can see it becoming a slightly more homogenised, less rebellious act, but there will always be rebels involved with it who seek to further it in a different way. Skateboarding has never not surprised me. Everybody involved within it is creative to some extent, and it will never die, there’s a place for all of it. It’s wide open, and that's what's sick about it.